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	<title>Comments on: Courage</title>
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	<link>http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/</link>
	<description>Heathenry, and the religious world in which it exists</description>
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		<title>By: Bernulf</title>
		<link>http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernulf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No worries about the typo - or ensuing confusion - I&#039;m glad it was cleared up as it just seemed odd and against logic to me :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries about the typo &#8211; or ensuing confusion &#8211; I&#8217;m glad it was cleared up as it just seemed odd and against logic to me :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell</title>
		<link>http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Feb 2007 13:04:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-306</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right, and he is saying that honor arises from courage. That was an unfortunate typo on my part. i should have re-read my post before I clicked &quot;submit&quot;. Apologies for any confusion that may have caused. 

James C. Russell is basing his argument on the OHG &lt;i&gt;ére&lt;/i&gt; which is not the same as Ehre, according to George Fenwick Jones (&lt;i&gt;Honor in German Literature&lt;/i&gt;, Studies in the Germanic Languages and Literatures, 1959). According to Jones, the true meaning of &lt;i&gt;ére&lt;/i&gt; is &quot;splendor, glory, higher standing, partly that which arises from power and wealth (high position, superior feudal rank), partly that which arises from courage and bravery.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, and he is saying that honor arises from courage. That was an unfortunate typo on my part. i should have re-read my post before I clicked &#8220;submit&#8221;. Apologies for any confusion that may have caused. </p>
<p>James C. Russell is basing his argument on the OHG <i>ére</i> which is not the same as Ehre, according to George Fenwick Jones (<i>Honor in German Literature</i>, Studies in the Germanic Languages and Literatures, 1959). According to Jones, the true meaning of <i>ére</i> is &#8220;splendor, glory, higher standing, partly that which arises from power and wealth (high position, superior feudal rank), partly that which arises from courage and bravery.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bernulf</title>
		<link>http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernulf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 17:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comment, Hrafnkell!

Without having read more of James C. Russell than you quote here, it&#039;s very possible that I&#039;m misreading his meaning. It seems to me that, when one could only rely on family and community for protection and other forms of assistance, love (or some sort of close, interpersonal bond) is more strongly indicated as a &lt;i&gt;source&lt;/i&gt; for courage than is honor. It would seem to me that honor actually arises (in part) from courage, as it would demonstrate one&#039;s commitment to his or her community, and the community would then recognize that commitment with a higher status regard.

It would seem Tacitus agrees with me, at least in part, in chapter seven of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.northvegr.org/lore/tacitus/001.php&quot; title=&quot;Germania, hosted by the Northvegr Foundation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Germania&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;, when he says:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;What proves the principal incentive to their valour is, that it is not at random nor by the fortuitous conflux of men that their troops and pointed battalions are formed, but by the conjunction of whole families, and tribes of relations. Moreover, close to the field of battle are lodged all the nearest and most interesting pledges of nature. Hence they hear the doleful howlings of their wives, hence the cries of their tender infants. These are to each particular the witnesses whom he most reverences and dreads; these yield him the praise which affect him most.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In chapter eight, Courage stemming at least in part from Love is perhaps most directly exemplified by the following:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;&quot;In history we find, that some armies already yielding and ready to fly, have been by the women restored, through their inflexible importunity and entreaty, presenting their breasts, and showing their impending captivity; an evil to the Germans then by far most dreadful when it befalls their women.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

With all of this in mind, I think that Christians are as capable of loving their family and community as Heathens, and I would think this certainly implies that Christians can experience courage for more reasons than just individual salvation. My purpose in quoting Shippey was simply to demonstrate that, from a Heathen perspective, individual salvation is just not a reason why we endeavor to be courageous in our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comment, Hrafnkell!</p>
<p>Without having read more of James C. Russell than you quote here, it&#8217;s very possible that I&#8217;m misreading his meaning. It seems to me that, when one could only rely on family and community for protection and other forms of assistance, love (or some sort of close, interpersonal bond) is more strongly indicated as a <i>source</i> for courage than is honor. It would seem to me that honor actually arises (in part) from courage, as it would demonstrate one&#8217;s commitment to his or her community, and the community would then recognize that commitment with a higher status regard.</p>
<p>It would seem Tacitus agrees with me, at least in part, in chapter seven of <a href="http://www.northvegr.org/lore/tacitus/001.php" title="Germania, hosted by the Northvegr Foundation" rel="nofollow"><i>Germania</i></a>, when he says:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;What proves the principal incentive to their valour is, that it is not at random nor by the fortuitous conflux of men that their troops and pointed battalions are formed, but by the conjunction of whole families, and tribes of relations. Moreover, close to the field of battle are lodged all the nearest and most interesting pledges of nature. Hence they hear the doleful howlings of their wives, hence the cries of their tender infants. These are to each particular the witnesses whom he most reverences and dreads; these yield him the praise which affect him most.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>In chapter eight, Courage stemming at least in part from Love is perhaps most directly exemplified by the following:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>&#8220;In history we find, that some armies already yielding and ready to fly, have been by the women restored, through their inflexible importunity and entreaty, presenting their breasts, and showing their impending captivity; an evil to the Germans then by far most dreadful when it befalls their women.&#8221;</i></p></blockquote>
<p>With all of this in mind, I think that Christians are as capable of loving their family and community as Heathens, and I would think this certainly implies that Christians can experience courage for more reasons than just individual salvation. My purpose in quoting Shippey was simply to demonstrate that, from a Heathen perspective, individual salvation is just not a reason why we endeavor to be courageous in our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Hrafnkell</title>
		<link>http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>Hrafnkell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Feb 2007 15:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heathenblog.wordpress.com/2007/02/09/courage/#comment-300</guid>
		<description>Excellent article, Bernulf. I particularly liked that you investigated various types of courage, including group or social courage. James C. Russell in his &lt;i&gt;Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity&lt;/i&gt; discusses the Germanic concept of honor, noting that courage arises from honor. &quot;Since the early Germans could not rely upon the protection and assistance of a bureaucratic empire when they were threatened with attack or famine, it was incumbent upon each man and woman of the community to adhere to the fundamental sociobiological principle of grouop survival embodied in the bonds of familial and communal solidarity.&quot; Russell further argues that &quot;One&#039;s status in society depended upon how closely one adhered to this fundamental principle&quot; In this view, a Heathen would have been motivated by the desire to avoid public shame whereas a Christian would have a more internal focus, that is, feelings of guilt or fear of divine punishment(p. 120).

I think this ties in well with what Shippey said and demonstrates a fundamental difference between Heathenism and Christianity, that is, community and this-life oriented vs. looking towards a future existence in &quot;Heaven.&quot; For Heathens it is a bond of kinship, for Christians, more of an &quot;every man for himself&quot; approach - individual salvation vs. the good of the group.

I definitely think there are many examples in history of group courage amongst Heathens during the Great Genocide Christians like to call the &lt;i&gt;Conversion of Europe&lt;/i&gt; from the 4th to the 14th century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article, Bernulf. I particularly liked that you investigated various types of courage, including group or social courage. James C. Russell in his <i>Germanization of Early Medieval Christianity</i> discusses the Germanic concept of honor, noting that courage arises from honor. &#8220;Since the early Germans could not rely upon the protection and assistance of a bureaucratic empire when they were threatened with attack or famine, it was incumbent upon each man and woman of the community to adhere to the fundamental sociobiological principle of grouop survival embodied in the bonds of familial and communal solidarity.&#8221; Russell further argues that &#8220;One&#8217;s status in society depended upon how closely one adhered to this fundamental principle&#8221; In this view, a Heathen would have been motivated by the desire to avoid public shame whereas a Christian would have a more internal focus, that is, feelings of guilt or fear of divine punishment(p. 120).</p>
<p>I think this ties in well with what Shippey said and demonstrates a fundamental difference between Heathenism and Christianity, that is, community and this-life oriented vs. looking towards a future existence in &#8220;Heaven.&#8221; For Heathens it is a bond of kinship, for Christians, more of an &#8220;every man for himself&#8221; approach &#8211; individual salvation vs. the good of the group.</p>
<p>I definitely think there are many examples in history of group courage amongst Heathens during the Great Genocide Christians like to call the <i>Conversion of Europe</i> from the 4th to the 14th century.</p>
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